{ 46 comments… read them below or add one }

mom November 15, 2010 at 7:03 pm

Not related to the blog entry but I didn’t where to put this.
It is such a piece of with that I will let you decide for yourself…. it is exactly the opposite that you are doing, and that woman needs some of your educated, quick thinking comment to “enlighten ” her…

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Birth Without Fear November 15, 2010 at 8:37 pm

There is no way I will read her blog and take the time to comment. She is so far from the truth and truly does spread lies and fears. It’s a waste of time.

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Cathy November 15, 2010 at 10:21 pm

Well, I had to bite, didn’t I? BWF, you may not be reading her blog, but she’s sure as hell reading yours! I commented and she responded in about five minutes, lol. She’s probably reading this too, but whatever.

Cathy
I wanted to birth both my children naturally and without intervention, so I did. Yes, there was fear of pain but there was also confidence and faith in my body’s ability to do what women have been doing since humans walked the earth. I do not fear doctors, nor do I worship them. For me, they are irrelevant.
This post is absolute nonsense.

Today, 2:53:01 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate Amy Tuteur, MD
“This post is absolute nonsense.”

I see you came over from the blog Birth Without Fear. I’ve been laughing so hard at the blithering idiocy on that site that I can barely catch my breath.

And the irony! The reference to this post appears in the comments of the BWF post listing 5 reasons why you should FEAR induction. Way to prove my point!

The nonsense in the sidebar about the baby knowing when to be born is just priceless. BWF is like a billboard advertising the profound and belligerent ignorance of natural childbirth advocacy.

Thanks for the laugh!
Today, 3:04:47 PM– Flag – Like – Reply – Delete – Edit – Moderate

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Birth Without Fear November 15, 2010 at 10:38 pm

That is AWESOME! No, I am not reading it and nor will I. But now I know I am doing my job and will keep doing it! Thanks for the smile Cathy. :)

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Cathy November 15, 2010 at 10:57 pm

:D You are SO welcome.

PS. I’ll keep you posted, LMAO

Kalah November 15, 2010 at 9:32 pm

OK, that is one of the most ridiculous blog posts I’ve ever seen. The home birth midwife who delivered my baby had a masters degree in midwifery, had a full complement of medical supplies, and would have gone to the hospital with me if that had been needed.

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Birth Without Fear November 15, 2010 at 9:36 pm

Kalah, are you talking about my blog post or the link “mom” posted?

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Lesley February 17, 2011 at 12:42 pm

Kahlah,,

Was your homebirth midwife a CNM then? You said she had a Master’s degree in midwifery. I’m genuinely curious – I didn’t know colleges gave out bachelor’s or master’s in midwifery. I thought midwifery, at least to become a CPM, entailed getting a license/accreditation by a governing body such as NARM. The education process of becoming a CNM I know even less about – so CNMs may well have Master’s degrees in midwifery, and in my ignorance I simply never knew there was such a thing!

L

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Registered Midwife June 9, 2011 at 5:37 am

Depends what country the midwife is in. My qualification as a midwife is a BSc Midwifery and I am currently doing my Msc. Am in the UK.

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Laura July 8, 2011 at 4:29 pm

Hi Lesley,
My long-term goal is to become a CNM, and yes, I will get a masters. Educationally, it’s similar to being a nurse-practitioner.

Laura

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Laura July 8, 2011 at 4:30 pm

Oh, and I should have said – I’m in the US.

Emily D. January 26, 2012 at 11:49 pm

A few midwifery schools (CPM) in the United States are looking into what would be required to offer a Master’s degree in midwifery. So while I don’t think they are available for CPMs right now, I believe they will be available in the next decade or so!

CNMs and CMs have the equivalent of a Master’s degree, and some CPMs have similar education backgrounds. I, for example, am studying to be CPM through the Nizhoni Institute of Midwifery in San Diego. I already have a BA in Biology with a minor in Chemistry, and experience with research science. The program I’m in is quite equivalent to a Master’s program in terms of content and rigor; the difference is that it does not require an independent research component nor does it involve writing a thesis. Once I’m a practicing midwife, I may very well look into a doing a Master’s in Public Health, and focus my studies on homebirth.

So there are a lot of options here that this could cover, within the United States. :)

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Robin January 27, 2012 at 10:01 pm

I am relatively close to San Diego and want to become a midwife. I am starting an apprenticeship and currently attending a non-accredited school. Nizhoni Institute is about a 2.5 hour drive for me so much too far for daily driving. I have a couple questions. Do they offer distance learning and students make occasional trips for clinical skills, and do you know if tuition can be covered by the MGIB?

Andrea von Schoening November 15, 2010 at 10:27 pm

The only thing that is accurate on that site is the logo … which looks like SOB! It’s really not worth reading, or getting worked up about, which is what happens to me when I read that stuff. If that’s what those people really want … well all I can say is that it’s sad, especially for their babies.

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Christy @ pureMotherhood November 16, 2010 at 2:48 pm

SOB – Love it!

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brande November 17, 2010 at 12:16 pm

i thought the SAME thing when i saw the logo. too funny :)

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concerned mother August 24, 2011 at 8:32 pm

Isn’t this site (BWF) about supporting women through child birth? If you choose the have a natural birth that’s great, but do not judge those that choose the medical system to support them through this amazing experience. Not all doctors are glory hunters!!!!

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Sarah January 26, 2012 at 11:49 pm

I think the issue is that some doctors ARE great people, just like some midwives ARE glory hunters. What concerns me about the other post, the “SOB” post, is that she doesn’t give any place for HB. She automatically assumes its wrong because its not what she does (or maybe because she fears it…). Did this post or others say DON’T use a doctor? No, (or at least none that I have read) instead they show options. All this post said was beware of inductions (because they do have side effects just like all medicine and medical procedures, that you may or may not be aware of) I think most women know there is some (even if it is just minimal) danger in giving birth, but they don’t need to be scared into the doctors office. If it is really better women will choose to go to the doctor of their own accord. Plus may I point out, statistics in the end will prove who is safer, if a bunch of babies/mothers die because they did a “non-doctor” birth then people will head back to the doctors/hospitals in droves, no one will need to be “threatened”, or “scared” back (no one wants their child to die during birth) so the idea that doctors need to create websites like that is ridiculous! People will do what is best for them.

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Emily D. January 26, 2012 at 11:53 pm

If you read the posts on this blog, I think you’ll find that BWF is incredibly respectful of ALL women’s options and choices. What she doesn’t respect is when women are browbeaten into accepting interventions that they don’t want. As a doula and a student midwife, I am sad to say that happens a lot more than we wish it would.

If you’d like evidence of this, please read today’s post on epidurals: http://birthwithoutfearblog.com/2012/01/26/the-big-bad-epidural/ (Note that the title of the post is facetious.)

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mom November 15, 2010 at 9:01 pm

you are so right!!!! I stumble upon that…”thing” and I couldn’t believe my eyes…. I just thought she needed to be put back in her place….. god knows she deserve a reality check!!!

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Kalah November 15, 2010 at 9:40 pm

The crazy skeptical OB person writes such drivel. Your posts are great BWF. Sorry to be unclear.

I’m in the childbirth profession and have seen firsthand all the stuff that you write about. It makes me so angry to see doctors running down midwifery like it’s witchcraft…

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Rae October 19, 2011 at 10:15 am

I like The Doctors, except the “see a baby being born live on tv!” one, where they c/s’ed a lady (early, I might add, she was 39 weeks, If I remember right) because her baby was breech. So not only did they take the baby early, they took her? before she had a chance to turn. Although I think I remember them stressing that it was major abdominal surgery, which is at least something, I guess…

I have often thought that the next time I get prenant, I’ll call them and invite their cameras into my house when I go into labor, so they can put a ‘live’ natural home birth on TV, with stipulations that they DO NOT use the words ‘dangerous’, ‘needles’(my own benefit, I hate them!), ‘pain’, ‘fear’.

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mom November 15, 2010 at 11:14 pm

I am sorry I didn’t mean to get everybody upset…she is a piece of work.

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LivandLex November 16, 2010 at 11:43 am

I followed that link to the “other” blog. I couldn’t even read past the first sentence or two. The statment about birth being inherently dangerous is utterly ridiculous. No way do I want to waste my time reading that nonsense.

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concerned mother August 24, 2011 at 8:35 pm

If it is ‘utterly ridiculous’ why do babies and women die during child birth???

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Doulalady January 26, 2012 at 11:40 pm

More people die in car accidents than in childbirth, at least in the U.S. Do you avoid driving, as well? Or bring along a surgeon just in case?

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Doulalady January 26, 2012 at 11:53 pm

Though that says something about our driving. :( Our infant mortality rate sucks! :(

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Emily D. January 26, 2012 at 11:59 pm

The sad thing is that just as many women and babies die in the hospital as do at birth centers and during home births. As the saying goes, “Birth is as safe as life gets.” Life, though, is not inherently safe, and childbirth is the same way. Sometimes things go wrong, in childbirth and in life. Hospitals and obstetrical surgeons are a wonderful blessing that we are SO lucky to have access to in this country! Women at high risk would likely die or be seriously injured without their intervention! However, low risk women (the ones eligible for home birth) are actually safer in the hands of a midwife, since the interventions that can reduce risk in a high-risk mother will frequently increase the risk in a low-risk mother!

A good analogy is the common cold. A cold is something that can be managed at home for most people. For some however, it turns nasty and becomes bronchitis or even pneumonia. Those people need to see a doctor, and often need antibiotics. If we treat everyone with a cold with antibiotics, we’ll create more problems than we started with, which is why they are reserved for people who need them. The same ought to be true with hospital birth.

Does that make sense?

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Christy @ pureMotherhood November 16, 2010 at 2:50 pm

I wonder how long she (Dr. Amy – SOB) has not been practicing medicine. Got her BS in 79 and MD in 84. Also, I can’t figure out why she thinks that people who don’t go to medical school can’t know as much or more about birth as the one who does. Scratching my head.

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Hollie December 3, 2010 at 9:35 am

Read and responded to the link posted by mom…. what a disrespectful piece! I don’t care if a mother wants to have a scheduled c/s, that’s her choice, so it boggles me why anyone would care if someone else has a HB!!!
and the idea that NCB advocates are ROLLING in money! LMFAO, yeah those poor penniless doctors!

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Miranda January 2, 2011 at 1:33 am

Oh my god I just looked at that blog everyone was talking about – it actually made me shake with RAGE, and I barely read a word of it! Just the over all “I know everything, do not think to question me” tone made me SICK! Urgh, it’s Obs like HER that send women screaming into the “dangerous” (LOL!) hands of midwives and doulas so they never have to experience that horror again. Wow, who in their right minds would preach to mothers to FEAR birth???! To FEAR it? How is that going to prevent a dangerous outcome?! It’s just going to make things worse! Makes you wonder about the poor poor women she “doctored” during their births… *shudder*
As for the whole brainwashing idea she has about natural birth – the ONLY reason I started investigating doulas and homebirths was BECAUSE of my horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE experience birthing my son! Thank god I had the foresight to look into what actually went wrong during his birth, as I might not have decided to go for a VBAC this time at all!
ARGH, I think I will be angry for a very, very long time!

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Joyful_Momma February 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm

Blog about it. That’s what I did. Helped bunches!

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concerned mother August 24, 2011 at 8:38 pm

Just because your the birth with your son was so horrible does not mean following births will take the same path, regardless of the birth choice you take. Surely we all know that every pregnancy, labour and delivery is completely different.

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Trish February 28, 2011 at 12:03 pm

Hi,
Let me say I support your school of thought even though I have been induced with all six of my births.
I am wondering what your position is on pre eclampsia? I was induced this time for pre eclampsia, and ended up with a c section. It was the first time it’s ended that way for me. With my other deliveries I went in after my water broke and we tried everything we could to get labor going and after a day or so I was induced. But I assume you would advocate waiting in those cases, so I am mainly interested in this last time when my blood pressure was 147/97 and I had protein in my urine and was seeing spots. I know that this can get very serious as when my sister had it she developed eclampsia and started seizing during her labor before they did a c section for her. She certainly would have died without Intervention and her baby too.
So, in a case like that what would you do?

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Mrs. BWF February 28, 2011 at 12:09 pm

Trish, very situation is different, but most likely, I would have given myself a day or 2 at least to try some natural things like resting, chiropractic adjustments to the atlas (helps w/blood pressure) and maybe some supplements/homeopathics. If none of that helped and I truly felt it was becoming a medical emergency, I would seek medical help. With my next pregnancy I would do all I could with diet and supplements to then avoid Pre-E. Hope this answers your question.

And yes, if my water broke and everything was well with me and the baby, I would stay hydrated, do no vaginal exams and wait it out. :)

Mrs. BWF

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Devon July 8, 2011 at 8:27 am

I am thankful everyday for doctors, hospitals and the OR. I tried to give birth to my daughter vaginally. After 12 hours of labor her heart rate started dropping substantially with every contraction. They had me down in the OR within 5 minutes and had her out and safe. I am very thankful to have a happy, healthy, bright and thriving 3 year old daughter and not a child that suffers with cerebral paulsy or worse had died beause of the lack of oxygen to the brain. I couldn’t have imagined what would have happened to my child if I would have chosen to have her at home with a midwife.

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Laura July 8, 2011 at 4:37 pm

Yes, Devon, I agree in the case of true distress, I’m grateful for c-sections. But you should realize that it is difficult to recognize true distress. I’ve read a blog post from an OB that doesn’t like to do c-sections. He was trying everything to try to resolve the heart rate issues but eventually felt he needed to do a c-section. And the baby came out perfectly pink – so there really was no oxygen deprivation happening. I was at a birth as a doula where the same thing was happening – deep dips with each contraction. It turned out the reason was that the mom was going from 6 cm to fully dilated very quickly. The baby was born after a few pushes & was fine. So I would really hope that in your case, your baby needed the c-section. I don’t mean to sound mean – just hope you realize that not all c-sections for fetal distress are necessary.

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Bek August 16, 2011 at 10:29 pm

The dropping of the heart rate is very normal during contractions due to head compression which is necessary for the baby to descend into the birth canal. It is made worse by lying on a bed. Your baby was probably soon to be born and they pulled her back out of the birth canal.

Yes, I am glad you felt safe having the hospital there to help you BUT without them being around to constantly monitor you would have not known about this normal happening in birth and you would have birthed your baby vaginally without any distress. This is the very point of no intervention. Every small step of intervention – and having hospital staff who are trained to see everything as a problem and not a normal function of birth – will lead to another level of intervention.

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Tamera M Weis RN January 26, 2012 at 11:51 pm

Concerned Mother—Babies and Mothers do die during birth–quite rarely actually–a surgical delivery increases the chances of dying–as does induction and epidurals and any other pain medication.

but people die driving cars–much more often than women and babies die in child birth–and they die shoveling snow–and a gentleman came into the ER where I was working and died after playing pool and having a beer with his 4 adult sons at the local bar (they were having such fun too). People die from accidents on the job.

Will you stop going to work…or driving…or having fun with your family….because you might die??

Only when we believe that we are not strong enough or smart enough to do what is best for our bodies or our children do we turn our power and minds over to some professional who gets paid to make our decisions for us. The truth is that birth is hard–but women are strong!

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Shanna January 27, 2012 at 9:48 am

I agree but there are circumstances where this is necessary, like in my case unfortunately. I had moderate pre-eclampsia when I was diagnosed with it at 36 weeks, my blood pressure never got any higher than 120/70 and by the time I was diagnosed with it my pressure was at 148/96 which is high compared to my normal for everyday life and my normal with the pregnancy. I was put on bed rest for a week and then induced a week later because protein levels in my urine were dangerously high I was on the border of eclampsia. Now I will say that pitocin is the devil and I don’t recommend it to anyone unless they absolutely need it! I do agree that it is being used way to much in this day and age and there are risks, dangerous risks in some cases but I do think that in cases like mine it is necessary to avoid major complications and death. But that’s just my opinion on it though…

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Elena February 27, 2012 at 4:02 pm

I would never recommend induction, especially to first time mothers.

However, that being said, I allowed the OB to induce with my fourth child, after a premature first child and then two “late” babies. We had moved to a new state in my ninth month, I felt comfortable with labor and birth, and I decided to go with “their” decision to induce my “late” baby. (All the quotes because I think their dates are a bunch of hooey.) Since I’d had experience with natural childbirth, I just rode out the contractions and it wasn’t that big a deal, to my surprise. With my fifth baby, I consented to induce again, because they were saying I was too “old” (38) to be able to carry the baby very long (not that I agree with it, but just decided to go with it.)

I only share my experience to say, I still don’t believe induction is ideal, but if you for some reason feel like it might be the best option, it doesn’t have to turn out like a nightmare.

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Rachel Lewis March 5, 2012 at 3:58 am

Just wanted to let you know that your blog has, in a sense, inspired me to start my own blog. We lost a baby due to ectopic pregnancy in December. Deep in my initial grief, I felt the need to share the story of “delivering” my baby. Even though my baby died, I felt the need to share my experience just as much as with my first daughter, who lived. I wanted to create a safe space for others, like you have, to share our experiences that are so dear to our heart.

I love reading the natural birth stories on your site, and am a natural-birther at heart, although I’ve only had complicated pregnancies with complicated deliveries so far. Hoping and praying that maybe, by God’s grace, we can have a natural pregnancy and birth in my future.

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Rachel Lewis March 5, 2012 at 4:10 am

WIth my first birth, I had preeclampsia and HELLP sydrome. I was 3 cm dilated, and they gave me every intervention that I didn’t want, but really needed. During the trial of labor, Maddy’s heart went way down for 8 minutes. After that, it was off for a c-section. I will never know if her heart rate dropped because of interventions, or because of preeclampsia/HELLP.

It took me a year to get over my feelings of disappointment and failure in her birth because what I REALLY wanted was a home birht. I am finally to the point of having no regrets. My Dr. has gone over all of my stats with me, and has continued to take all the time I need to go over it with her, even though that was 3 years ago. I feel confident now in her decisions. I know that it was the best because my liver was on the verge of rupturing.

Just wanted to share, because I noticed other women with pre-e had posted.

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Reed March 17, 2012 at 12:35 am

I completely agree that the inducing epidemic is getting insane, but I do want to say that inducing is not always terrible, as I don’t want people to get the wrong impression. I was induced on my due date, and if I hadn’t been, my mother was almost guaranteed to have died. She had had many spinal injuries and two pregnancies before me, one of which was trichrosomal and nearly killed her on it’s own. While this is a special circumstance I still think that people should hear times when it was needed just in case it ever happens to them or someone they know.

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The Laotian Commotion April 18, 2012 at 3:26 am

I am very interested in that “other article” now! I love a good blood-boiler so I can respond! :) anyway, thanks for the great quotes. I loved it so much, I used Dr. Odent’s quite in my latest blog post about talking inductions with my best friend.

http://thelaotiancommotion.com/2012/04/17/educating-about-dangers-of-induction-helping-or-hindering/

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Katie April 28, 2012 at 2:32 am

I love seeing quotes from Pushed on here! That book and all the research I’ve done since then has helped me convince my husband to let me do a homebirth. I love your site keep up the great work!!! Thank you!!

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